I enjoyed this interview from DW News with Philippe Aghion, winner of the 2025 Nobel in Economics. In the interview he advocates for a Danish-style social safety net as a mechanism that allow creative destruction: i.e. technological growth without leaving people behind. I made a transcript of the last four minutes, with some edits for clarity:
Interviewer: “Do you think in the age of Trump what’s happening (say in the US) is something fundamental or are these superficial changes?”
Aghion: “I think they’re fundamental. I don’t think they will disappear if Trump is no longer in power and I think a lot of that is because (the US) didn’t have a flex security system (like) Denmark. Many people suffered from the technological transformation and for globalization. Had they implemented a system like in Denmark, I think there would have been much less demand for populism more generally.”
Interviewer: “I see you have (had) this journey from being involved in the communist party to moving towards enhancing capitalism.“
Aghion: “So in fact I will tell you something when I was (young) my role model was (Enrico) Berlinguer. He was a very open communist leader and in fact he was for the historic compromise which was a compromise with the Christian democracy. They … became good social democrats. I keep having that in mind as a role model in the same way as the world has changed. I mean we now know that communism as a system doesn’t work, that it produces a lot of drama, a lot of undesirable things, but we on the other hand the communist parties in western Europe were defending workers and pushing for more social justice and more social mobility. But we know you can achieve social mobility through social democracy or social liberalism. Call it the way you want. So I still want shared prosperity and I want growth which is friendly. That’s why I like the flex security system. I want creative destruction which is socially geared. You see what I mean? I believe that the free market economy is the better system and economy. I believe very much in democracy, in a good social model, in green (policies), but the market economy so far is the system that that allowed us to achieve those. But I want a market economy which takes the social element seriously. So I am Schumpeterian but… You see what’s very interesting is that if you adopt Danish flex security you make creative destruction work better. It enhances innovation and at the same time you protect individuals. So it’s not that you have either-or. It’s not that you have to be either for innovation or for social protection and inclusion. You can do things that will make you both more innovative and more inclusive. For example more education means that you have more people who can become innovators; a good education system is good for inclusiveness and for you innovation-based growth and competition. More competition means that more entrants can come in; that boosts social mobility. So you boost innovation and you boost social mobility. So I don’t believe that you have to oppose (either) the goal of achieving social mobility and the goal of achieving more growth through creative destruction.”
To me, this means that social programs like universal basic education, universal basic health care, and maybe even (!!) universal inclusion in the gains of capital would allow a more robust and thriving sort of capitalism.







